hunger
posted by name of the rose at 5:26 p.m.
soak the edge
The inside of thought is where everything teems and stirs with a thousand cracks is where the water meets the shore like threads pulled taut that soak the edge
Friday, December 17, 2004
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38 Comments:
this seems familiar, as though I've seen it before somewhere; perhaps it's just the way the hands are held to the mouth eating, though ... at first, it reminded me of an old man, north african ...
what's the inspiration?
its an old sketch, originally from a magazine image that accompanied an article on hunger in Africa, so your comment fits and maybe you have seen it...its up today because I was working with a little girl this week and learned that her mom gets food stamps...so I have been thinking about her, her at this time of year, the time of her young life, knowing she is bright and good and filled with promise...
we are lucky for what we have, in this part of the world
I will qualify my last comment...
at the time of this sketch, I had been frenetically searching for photographic images of people eating, to sketch (so as to study) how facial muscles shift when someone is eating and from these sketches, I was going to work a series of paintings, the sum total, in series, intending to make some broader statement about consumption, about culture consuming us...some excrutiatingly profound idea like that...the idea still interests me, except that now, I think of culture more like skin, something we wear that becomes us...skin of culture
interesting - it wasn't originally in The Economist, was it? or perhaps Le Monde Diplo? the 'nut' reference tells me something ...
hunger - though unfortuate in a larger sense - is especially so in the school system and among children; there is often a stigma attached to receiving food stamps, as well ... and kids figure it out pretty quickly.
[some excrutiatingly profound idea like that...]
this is funny; made me smile
[...think of culture more like skin, something we wear that becomes us...]
this is an interesting idea, as some can and do move btwn cultures and norms as easily and often as they change clothing; I'd never thought of it as such, but suppose that it's apt
[in The Economist, was it? or perhaps Le Monde Diplo?] ...it could have been, but I think I saw it in osmething more populaced, maybe National Geographic (?) or even Time (?) ...
[often a stigma attached to receiving food stamps, as well ... and kids figure it out pretty quickly.]...stigma is an interesting word, something I have thought alot about...and yes, it starts early with children, those competitive values, those dichotomies of good/bad based on exterior things, judgements made from surreptitiously taught lessons learned from a young age...
can you tell kids from more privelidged backgrounds, when you see them? or divine something of their parents' socio-economic status by their behavior/dress etc?
[as some can and do move btwn cultures and norms as easily and often as they change clothing]...would that be a true nomad?...or is a nomad someone who carries one's country in one's heart, no matter how displaced one gets?...the seasoned traveller shifting between cultures, yes, but also [shifting norms as easily and often as they change clothing]...an interesting notion I want to think more about, about the limits of self while travelling and how far they might stretch for some
[would that be a true nomad?...or is a nomad someone who carries one's country in one's heart, no matter how displaced one gets?...]
I think that it would refer rather to somone who's multi-cultural, or [the seasoned traveller] who's accustomed to his own culture and that or those of others, so much so that it becomes his own - not just a question of adapting, but [becoming], to borrow the word and meaning from you.
[can you tell kids from more privelidged backgrounds, when you see them? or divine something of their parents' socio-economic status by their behavior/dress etc?]
...that's a great question...most definately, yes, but not necessarily by sight, it is something else that requires time spent in conversation...sometimes it takes a conversation to sense a broader knowledge base, that there are more experiences to draw from...sometimes, there is a sense of having life goals earlier in life (at a young age) but sometimes also a certain flatness, perhaps surprisingly less divergent thinking, less questioning, a taking certain things for granted that other children might not, sometimes a disregard for (material) things, or not being aware of or interested in the need for doing certain routine things (like putting things away)...this generalization is not true for all children-with-means of course
...and their parents; their sense of rushing hereandthere, the sense of 'scheduling' the child in between pockets of their life and a certain indifference sometimes or a different sensibility towards certain community professionals (like teachers) and the servile nature of their job...their dress not necessarily outstanding, although often the parents rushing from or to work and dropping hte kids off in professional attire or seen idling the car while the child steps out to walk themselves to class...but maybe its in the details, the shoes, a purse, the quality of the stitch in a seeminlgy ordinary white shirt, (but most obvious in the designer dresses for the two-year-old-in-tow)...again, generalizations on my part
...and for both age groups, wasting (good) food, for both children and adults...which brings us full circle
having said all of this, there are many grounded
people, young and old, in various socioeconomic classes and those are the ones who interest me, how they seem to transcend class and its many associations
my comments are strictly my own and only reflect my observations, however limited...
[not just a question of adapting, but [becoming], to borrow the word and meaning from you.]...would you place your self in that category?
[but maybe its in the details, the shoes, a purse, the quality of the stitch in a seeminlgy ordinary white shirt]
knowing this then, and as appearance is (most often) associated with economic means, have you ever encountered the inverse, that those parents without means will dress their children well, or in expensive items, if only for show, or for the benefit of the child? eg a welfare child dressed in designer clothing etc?
[would you place your self in that category?]
with some hesitation at the immodesty of the answer, I say 'yes'
[knowing this then, and as appearance is (most often) associated with economic means, have you ever encountered the inverse, that those parents without means will dress their children well, or in expensive items, if only for show, or for the benefit of the child? eg a welfare child dressed in designer clothing etc?]
...hmmm...a welfare mom in all practicality would not have the money to spare, counting pennies for milk, etc. and of course it also depends on the age of the child and also what you consider to be designer clothing...no I can't say that I have seen that (which is not the same thing as dressing a child with a few nice items)...is this something you have seen?
[with some hesitation at the immodesty of the answer, I say 'yes']...can you explain the notion of shifting norms as easily as one changes clothing...shifting norms?
yes, this is something that I have seen; and that others I know have seen - an interesting phenomenon, perhaps specific only to the inner-cities of the US though; and though poverty is universal, it may be more pronounced there than it is anywhere else in N. America.
but, I know as well that in general, those parents with less means aware of the stigma and difficulty of growing up with little will go out the way to provide certain things for their children.
which is paradoxically non-sensical and sensible, at the same time.
[shifting norms ..]
adapting to a set of rules in one culture that may not be applicable in another, or that may be nuanced, which could be as inane as drinking a can of Coke on the street, from the can, to talking on public transport, to making small talk with someone in a dept. store, or insisting that someone allow you to 'treat', or that being offered a glass of water in someone's home is sometimes more than just a gesture, and shouldn't be turned down, even if the glass is left untouched ... acceptable behavior in certain places, that is not acceptable elsewhere etc
[National Geographic (?) or even Time (?) ...] in passing, though I like National Geographic a great deal, especially the images, I rarely read it ... and I never read Time, so - I'm curious where we intersected on this one; compelling nonetheless.
I'm guessing that this is a talent that you were born with, and refined with time? the portraitures, that is?
[adapting to a set of rules in one culture that may not be applicable in another, or that may be nuanced]...more behavioural, rule driven, I was thinking more in terms of values, thinking your implication was one of shifting values in a chameleon-like way, when shifting from one place to another place
[talking on public transit]...as if to imply places one would not do so?
[more behavioural, rule driven, I was thinking more in terms of values, thinking your implication was one of shifting values in a chameleon-like way, when shifting from one place to another place]
curiously, both of these are correct, this aspect and 'explanation' is a precedent to other things, a calling card of sorts to places that value other things far more than our 'north american society' does, such as 'success' and 'wealth', standards that are completely different ... difficult to explain, as it's often engrained in a sense of being.
[as if to imply places one would not do so?] ... yes ... and that engaging strangers is not always seen as a good thing, and where people would - and do - walk past others who are injured on the street, where there is a law - a law - that states that if you witness an accident, you must stop to help ... becuase otherwise no one would ... such places exist, and are contrary to everything that we, as N. Americans, take for granted.
[yes, this is something that I have seen; and that others I know have seen - an interesting phenomenon, perhaps specific only to the inner-cities of the US though; and though poverty is universal, it may be more pronounced there than it is anywhere else in N. America.]
that's an interesting idea, that poverty manifests differently in rural and then again in urban settings that are not strictly inner city contexts where crime rates and violence are more prevalent
[in general, those parents with less means aware of the stigma and difficulty of growing up with little will go out the way to provide certain things for their children]
...and yes, there are good parents in any class who sacrifice for their children ...and I do beleive in the inherent goodness of people first (more Rousseau-ian than Hobbsian)...but am also perhaps a little more cynical than you, having seen the effects of broken homes and children given up as 'wards of the state' or to foster care for no good reason...that there are also those adults who should never become parents, who don't put the child's needs first
...it might also be a question of degrees or of definitions here...but I have not noticed a welfare mom dress a child in designer labels although I have seen Gap clothing labels, etc...if that is what you mean by designer clothing
...I would much rather see a parent invest their child with experiences (art classes or music lessons, etc) but that's my bias...recognizing that our N. American context places material possessions in the forefront of success and that its pursuit often becomes manic, especially for those who may not have so much and are running to keep up (appearances)...compared to how most of the rest of the world lives
[which is paradoxically non-sensical and sensible, at the same time.]...meeting basic needs first is sensible and I suppose if dressing a child a particular way keeps that child from being ostracized by their peers, that too is a degree of sensibility
[although I have seen Gap clothing labels, etc...if that is what you mean by designer clothing]
yes, that is moreorless what I mean, as it keeps the kid inline with other students
[...I would much rather see a parent invest their child with experiences (art classes or music lessons, etc)]
that's a tough sell in the inner-city, where for better-or-worse, I have some cursory experience ... you'd be hard pressed to sell the idea of violin or piano lessons to a single-mother in Section 8 housing ...
[meeting basic needs first is sensible and I suppose if dressing a child a particular way keeps that child from being ostracized by their peers, that too is a degree of sensibility]
which is the essence of it, really
[where there is a law - a law - that states that if you witness an accident, you must stop to help ... becuase otherwise no one would]...I like how you wrote this...and assume that you have been to such places, implying war-torn areas or those places once devasted by such?...the notion of war meaning something overt or covert
[a calling card of sorts to places that value other things far more than our 'north american society' does, such as 'success' and 'wealth', standards that are completely different ... difficult to explain, as it's often engrained in a sense of being]...but I am wondering if you actually take on those values (say, of walking past an injured person because it is the norm and to do otherwise would complicate one's own passage through by standing out...at what point do you become conflicted, or is that not an issue...in your becoming-travel, what remains constant? or are you strictly what your world projects onto you?
[I'm curious where we intersected on this one; compelling nonetheless.]...I will give it more thought, maybe a syndicated picture from a newspaper? since I have also drawn upon images from there
[I'm guessing that this is a talent that you were born with, and refined with time? the portraitures, that is?]...that's generous to call it [talent]...maybe the predisposition to 'speak' visually is innate, but I also beleive that drawing is an acquired skill, one which I am still learning about...but yes, I was drawing from an early age, although not necessarily well but compelled by scribbly lines and the metallic crayons in a box of 24...portraits became, from an early age, just another way to do a character study, to try to figure someone out, as if memorizing (how to draw) their face could reveal something of their inner character... trying to draw-through their surface details as if to get at their core, as if to say, I finally 'see' who someone is
Oh my .... how significant the differences are I realise, only now, as at the moment, I'm listening to Chavela Vargas singing 'La llorona' ... and my mind is elsewhere, though not far from where I am ...
[and assume that you have been to such places]
indeed, I have ...
[implying war-torn areas or those places once devasted by such?]
and this is the irony, as I sip my Bushmill's and listen to my music: the place that I refer to is not at all war-torn or impoverished, as the Yugoslav refugess I encountered in '92 and after would have suspected, in a more subtle sense later, and to the contrary ... it is a place that has enjoyed 700 years of peace and prosperity: one of the most prosperous nations in the world - Switzerland.
it is law, because the spirit that you and I enjoy, that of gratuitously helping one's neighbor, or helping one in need with no expectation of recompense, does not exist there.
[but I am wondering if you actually take on those values (say, of walking past an injured person because it is the norm and to do otherwise would complicate one's own passage through by standing out...)]
I do, but only to the extent that it doesn't conflict with the values that I have that are important to me, this being obvious and almost ... [I'm lacking the precise word here ... one htat means 'inherent' or 'natural', something that is not learned but 'known' ... and it's not coming to me ...]
[are you strictly what your world projects onto you?]
one takes and the best of the worlds that one comes from ... anecdotally noting that a Tunisian chap I met in MTL mentioned that adapting to life there was difficult if not impossible, because it's difficult to adpat to a 'culturally inferior' place ... which is a provocative statement, but understandable in the context in which it was stated ...
[Oh my .... how significant the differences are I realise] between you and I, in these opinions?
not so much between you and me, but in the assumptions that I make in general, that as you mention a given thing, I realise that things are not always as 'evident' as they are to me, and with reason ... it's not always 'obvious'
the 'difference' btwn 'my reality' and 'reality'
[trying to draw-through their surface details as if to get at their core, as if to say, I finally 'see' who someone is]
interseting perspective, though admittedly I don't have this ability, and am somewhat awed with those that do, if only because it is so foreign and unattainable as a talent
now I'm sad
because I don't understand
[now I'm sad because I don't understand]
let's see if I can explain: I think that you are I are philosophically pretty in-line with each other, with perhaps a few nuanced examples, but - I see that general assumptions I make are not always as obvious as I assume them to be, like saying
[you
know
how
D's preface-to-his-premise
is a rhizomatic ring
wrung by listening
to the thoughts of others
first like an apprentice
to the historyofphilosophy's lurking links]
may not at first be obvious, until a little time is spend trying to understand it ... the form was always in-place, but the details supporting it weren't ...
make sense?
[make sense?]...this does, and of the rest, I will spend time with it until it does...
fabulous. strangely, that makes me happy to hear.
and, I hope you know that I say all of this in the best of lights, with the most positive spin, with nothing to the contrary intended or implied
o language with is infinite interpretability
[and, I hope you know that I say all of this in the best of lights...]...and saying this is appreciated
SUN - 13h02 / 16h02
too bad, that seemed super interesting, as I strained to read it from a distance ...
okay...but just for you
thank you ...
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